Precision in language is important. Calling anyone slightly right of the moderate left - 'far right' - while rarely challenging those clearly on the far-left, is degrading our democracy.
Once upon a time we used to call a person of their character. Now we, or rather the media, and vocal activists frame a person in terms of their political identity.
The shift is deliberate, to devalue our insights.
Development of character is foundational in children, and is nurtured by parents and society.
We build everything else while we grow.
Character development, basic humanity and our connection with eachother gives us a ticket to a rich life.
I'll check out the Youtube. I'd add to what you wrote that many in media and politics also add 'grievance' as a factor; that is, the more you can claim to be aggrieved the more right you have to speak.
I really enjoyed this article Simon, I just hope that somehow we can move past the simplifying, polarising "identity politics" where you need to have an "identity" in order to speak on anything. It removes nuance and deep consideration of ideas, as you can simply dismiss an argument based on someone's "prefix" i.e. conservative, far left etc. You don't even need to counter the argument as your background, associations or experiences (things you may have no control over) disqualify your ability to have an opinion. The parallels of identity politics with racism are interesting.
I distinctly remember talking to you about whether joining the priesthood was clambering on to a sinking ship and I know that you had a nuanced position about it that most definitely doesn't reflect the pejorative use of that fact when it is applied as "former trainee catholic priest" speaks on 'Topic X'. I'm constantly frustrated by the inability for people, particularly on the right and centre of politics to change or evolve their opinions and thoughts, with minor social media posts and ideas from sometimes decades ago dragged up to discredit people.
I'm hoping for a revolution in politics as I can't see how an evolution can really resolve the issues we currently have. I just wonder how and when this will happen.
Lovely to hear from you Maarten and trust you are doing well. Certainly the lack of precision and clarity in language and argument is across the political spectrum. I'm certainly observing some on the centre and right adopting 'woke' tactics (so seeking to cancel people, dismiss people based on who they are rather than the efficacy of their argument). This is worrying as it bespeaks each side mirroring the poor behaviour of the other, and then spiralling down in dialogue. As for revolution vs. evolution. I think things mostly change slowly over time, often through degrading to such an extent that the need for change becomes obvious to all and everyone.
Thanks Simon, yes doing well here - I'm embedded in the world of waste which is not something I anticipated in Uni! I've been listening to lots of history podcasts and there's a theory that revolution comes from elite overproduction i.e. too many smart people with nothing to do and few prospects, rather than a general unhappiness of the majority. I can't see how we can evolve back to a better system, I think the system is, as you put it, spiralling down and I just hope that when the revolution comes it doesn't hurt people along the way.
I have a fairly 'dark' view insofar that if we cannot restore our systems, then there will be slow decline and then the classic 'rebuild from the ashes' type scenario. Sadly, this also means many good people do get hurt along the way. I should stress, I hope we can turn things around and believe we can.
Interesting discussion you two. Dare I suggest that one significant reason we face such a polarised world is the loss of objective truth. There are no longer touchstones of orthodoxy and whilst we all recognise religious perspectives change over time, there are still core moralities which were previously embedded and received by subsequent generations. The so-called 'right' still lean into those core traditions, which is what being 'conservative' is all about. Yet 'left' now seems to mean the abandonment of all that came before and their fully selective morality has no foundation other than in themselves. As they have no objective anchors, they are no longer really able to tell the difference between right and wrong. Which allows them to be complete nutcases and call for the US President to be killed, to support barbarians like Hamas or the long list of things that any moral person would consider just plain wrong. The irony they miss though, is that 'left' has also abandoned its own earlier passions - freedom of expression, care for others or liberty of citizens.
Good comment and I think it also explains why those on opposite sides are like ships passing in the night. I think the idea that we construct reality and truth (the classic postmodern position) is very damaging, and a leading cause of driving us down this destructive path. In the past, there was a sense of truth or reality - with each side seeking to better express what that was or is.
The misuse & manipulation of language has been going on since time immemorial, hence, do NOT 'bear false witness', don't lie!
There is no such thing as 'free speech' if people lie! As a result of a lie, disinformation, propaganda, we lose our freedom!
Free speech, truth, even a 'recipe or instructions' to make something is for the purpose of achieving a certain outcome which when accomplished realises a certain 'state of freedom', as now the intended result WORKS! That's freedom!
As so for the functioning of a society or a nation based on 'certain truths & principles' being practised, the nation WORKS!
Biblical principles including the Ten Commandments & the Gospels is to achieve that outcome!
Mt 4:4 ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by 'every word' that proceeds from the 'mouth of God'.”
Truth is foundational for the functioning of any society! Practising it is even more so! Lk 8:21
Why are Western Judeo-Christian societies failing? They weren't practising KEEPING God's Word! Jn 14:21-24
Christianity became just a 'believe' religion, don't worry about DOING, or WORKS!
Rev 3:1-3 “‘I know your WORKS; you have the 'name of being alive, and you are dead'. 2 Awake, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your WORKS 'perfect' in the sight of my God. 3 Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you".
Rev 20:12 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the 'Book of Life'. And the dead were 'judged' by what was 'written in the books', by what they had DONE"!
Rom 2:13 "For it is not the 'hearers of the law' who are 'righteous' before God, but the DOERS of the law who will be 'justified'."
Lk 8:21 "But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who 'hear the word' of God and DO it.” Mt 7:21-23, Phil 2:12
The list goes on!
There is NO FREEDOM without truth, followed by RESULTS!
"Faith without WORKS is DEAD! James 2:14-26, Dan 11:32, Rev 3:15-17
The labels are insulting and phoney. Yet they are also a sign of naked fear, fear that the shaky foundations of left ideology are being dismantled day by day.
That's their intended purpose, including to frame discussions immediately. It's also focusing on the person rather than their argument(s). In calling out the manipulations, I need to remind myself to not fall into said trap as well!
Nice Simon, you so often speak to the heart of the matter. And to what matters. We all know that media consider themselves moral arbiters of everything. They are self-confessed lefties, and now they construct narratives that demonise anyone sitting to their right and attach catchy labels to support their woke narratives. Prevent UK, a Government website, now declares anyone who raises concerns about mass immigration and dilution of the host culture as 'far right'. ('Alt right' is another similar label.) That makes Boris a Neo-Nazi in their eyes (despite Boris being a staunch Zionist, go figure...) The great divide now reinforces the intersectional nature of narrative support. Find me a wokester who supports Hamas, and I bet they will support everything else that Greta does (Climate BS, hate Trump, Trans-rights, evil ICE, BLM, pro-Islam etc). It is a package deal they buy into cos they lack critical insight. In the West they are also generally pampered little fuckwits who are indoctrinated through social 'science' courses at Uni. They have never known the normal hardships of our forebears, ergo they lack gratitude for what they have. In the Islamic world, they are just lapping up the support from these morons as it helps them towards their global caliphate goals. I am sorry to say though, that if we keep being kind and nice as per hitherto, then we are screwed. We need to take the fight back to them.
Yes, it's not really a pick n mix of issues any more, but more a set menu. You need to be into climate change and Gaza, and TDS as well as trans issues and more. A suite as it were, and to even digress on one of these is to see a person thrown out of the group. I suppose it begins to explain why positions are becoming so absurd and also shrill.
Thanks for this Simon. Language matters for it is, in some ways, how we construct our world. If I am correct with that then it follows that how we use language contributes to a more peaceful, collaborative world or a more fraught and dislocated one.
Thanks Sande. For me, language helps express our world. I suppose a small distinction for me that the world exists, or is constructed - and we use language to try and define it, discuss what we believe to be true and so on. As you note, language can contribute positively but I have also seen how it can be destructive.
I wouldn't call wealth taxes and such similar fiscal measures far-left. As for identity politics, many honest-to-God leftists treat it as a distraction from bread-and-butter issues of the jobs-and-houses-for-all variety, of the sort that are most relevant to the 85% of Māori who now live in urban areas (how many of our supposed far leftists ever talk about that sort of thing?)
it's one of the oddities on the left side, that the traditional issues - housing, welfare, job security etc - have been pushed to the side. I suppose for me, the individual taxes are not necessarily 'far-left' but all together, I think they fit the philosophy (if I can call it that)
A lot of genuinely far-left positions of the past have also been subsumed into the more eco-doomeristic positions of today, with their predictions of the futility of reform and of the coming collapse of capitalist-industrial society any day now, after the fashion of those my parents' generation used to call the "raving Trots;" who, as the joke went, had managed to successfully predict eleven of the last five recessions.
sadly, there are those seeking the collapse of the societies we have built (call it Western capitalist perhaps) with some odd notion that a new utopia will be welcomed. Western society is not perfect, but I'd argue a lot better than many others.
The science fiction writer and critic Brian Aldiss called it the lure of the "cosy catastrophe," the idea that once we smash everything up, whatever emerges from the ruins will somehow automatically be better. Probably the most dangerous idea in politics: the same mentality as that by which the poets went off to war in 1914 like "swimmers into cleanness leaping," as Rupert Brooke put it (and yes, he was one of the first to bite the dust).
It is not without consequence when people choose to use inflammatory words...blowing up a situation....which is actually a lie.
James 3:4 " Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires. "
The consequences....left and right ships are stealing a course further and further apart.
yes, very strange how this is flipped. I get the free speech aspect - it was a pulling up of the ladder. Free speech was championed till the progressives got what they wanted, then it was time to oppose the speech of others.
Once upon a time we used to call a person of their character. Now we, or rather the media, and vocal activists frame a person in terms of their political identity.
The shift is deliberate, to devalue our insights.
Development of character is foundational in children, and is nurtured by parents and society.
We build everything else while we grow.
Character development, basic humanity and our connection with eachother gives us a ticket to a rich life.
Labels divide, character develops.
(*We're all far-right now.*)
https://youtu.be/LsbRrTULpgA?si=IlNOHUaX1iubfRJ8
Thanks for the article, Simon.
I'll check out the Youtube. I'd add to what you wrote that many in media and politics also add 'grievance' as a factor; that is, the more you can claim to be aggrieved the more right you have to speak.
Grievance as an identity.
Well yes.
The spring of grievance pours eternal.
It can never be healed and demands compensation, in perpetuity.
If NZ wants to *grow up* we need to have this chat about what our character is, our common humanity first.
Until then we're stuck.
Btw, that youtube song is a universal theme, and a 3min chuckle.
I really enjoyed this article Simon, I just hope that somehow we can move past the simplifying, polarising "identity politics" where you need to have an "identity" in order to speak on anything. It removes nuance and deep consideration of ideas, as you can simply dismiss an argument based on someone's "prefix" i.e. conservative, far left etc. You don't even need to counter the argument as your background, associations or experiences (things you may have no control over) disqualify your ability to have an opinion. The parallels of identity politics with racism are interesting.
I distinctly remember talking to you about whether joining the priesthood was clambering on to a sinking ship and I know that you had a nuanced position about it that most definitely doesn't reflect the pejorative use of that fact when it is applied as "former trainee catholic priest" speaks on 'Topic X'. I'm constantly frustrated by the inability for people, particularly on the right and centre of politics to change or evolve their opinions and thoughts, with minor social media posts and ideas from sometimes decades ago dragged up to discredit people.
I'm hoping for a revolution in politics as I can't see how an evolution can really resolve the issues we currently have. I just wonder how and when this will happen.
Lovely to hear from you Maarten and trust you are doing well. Certainly the lack of precision and clarity in language and argument is across the political spectrum. I'm certainly observing some on the centre and right adopting 'woke' tactics (so seeking to cancel people, dismiss people based on who they are rather than the efficacy of their argument). This is worrying as it bespeaks each side mirroring the poor behaviour of the other, and then spiralling down in dialogue. As for revolution vs. evolution. I think things mostly change slowly over time, often through degrading to such an extent that the need for change becomes obvious to all and everyone.
Thanks Simon, yes doing well here - I'm embedded in the world of waste which is not something I anticipated in Uni! I've been listening to lots of history podcasts and there's a theory that revolution comes from elite overproduction i.e. too many smart people with nothing to do and few prospects, rather than a general unhappiness of the majority. I can't see how we can evolve back to a better system, I think the system is, as you put it, spiralling down and I just hope that when the revolution comes it doesn't hurt people along the way.
I have a fairly 'dark' view insofar that if we cannot restore our systems, then there will be slow decline and then the classic 'rebuild from the ashes' type scenario. Sadly, this also means many good people do get hurt along the way. I should stress, I hope we can turn things around and believe we can.
Interesting discussion you two. Dare I suggest that one significant reason we face such a polarised world is the loss of objective truth. There are no longer touchstones of orthodoxy and whilst we all recognise religious perspectives change over time, there are still core moralities which were previously embedded and received by subsequent generations. The so-called 'right' still lean into those core traditions, which is what being 'conservative' is all about. Yet 'left' now seems to mean the abandonment of all that came before and their fully selective morality has no foundation other than in themselves. As they have no objective anchors, they are no longer really able to tell the difference between right and wrong. Which allows them to be complete nutcases and call for the US President to be killed, to support barbarians like Hamas or the long list of things that any moral person would consider just plain wrong. The irony they miss though, is that 'left' has also abandoned its own earlier passions - freedom of expression, care for others or liberty of citizens.
Good comment and I think it also explains why those on opposite sides are like ships passing in the night. I think the idea that we construct reality and truth (the classic postmodern position) is very damaging, and a leading cause of driving us down this destructive path. In the past, there was a sense of truth or reality - with each side seeking to better express what that was or is.
The misuse & manipulation of language has been going on since time immemorial, hence, do NOT 'bear false witness', don't lie!
There is no such thing as 'free speech' if people lie! As a result of a lie, disinformation, propaganda, we lose our freedom!
Free speech, truth, even a 'recipe or instructions' to make something is for the purpose of achieving a certain outcome which when accomplished realises a certain 'state of freedom', as now the intended result WORKS! That's freedom!
As so for the functioning of a society or a nation based on 'certain truths & principles' being practised, the nation WORKS!
Biblical principles including the Ten Commandments & the Gospels is to achieve that outcome!
Mt 4:4 ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by 'every word' that proceeds from the 'mouth of God'.”
Truth is foundational for the functioning of any society! Practising it is even more so! Lk 8:21
Why are Western Judeo-Christian societies failing? They weren't practising KEEPING God's Word! Jn 14:21-24
Christianity became just a 'believe' religion, don't worry about DOING, or WORKS!
Rev 3:1-3 “‘I know your WORKS; you have the 'name of being alive, and you are dead'. 2 Awake, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your WORKS 'perfect' in the sight of my God. 3 Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you".
Rev 20:12 "And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Also another book was opened, which is the 'Book of Life'. And the dead were 'judged' by what was 'written in the books', by what they had DONE"!
Rom 2:13 "For it is not the 'hearers of the law' who are 'righteous' before God, but the DOERS of the law who will be 'justified'."
Lk 8:21 "But he said to them, “My mother and my brothers are those who 'hear the word' of God and DO it.” Mt 7:21-23, Phil 2:12
The list goes on!
There is NO FREEDOM without truth, followed by RESULTS!
"Faith without WORKS is DEAD! James 2:14-26, Dan 11:32, Rev 3:15-17
The labels are insulting and phoney. Yet they are also a sign of naked fear, fear that the shaky foundations of left ideology are being dismantled day by day.
That's their intended purpose, including to frame discussions immediately. It's also focusing on the person rather than their argument(s). In calling out the manipulations, I need to remind myself to not fall into said trap as well!
Nice Simon, you so often speak to the heart of the matter. And to what matters. We all know that media consider themselves moral arbiters of everything. They are self-confessed lefties, and now they construct narratives that demonise anyone sitting to their right and attach catchy labels to support their woke narratives. Prevent UK, a Government website, now declares anyone who raises concerns about mass immigration and dilution of the host culture as 'far right'. ('Alt right' is another similar label.) That makes Boris a Neo-Nazi in their eyes (despite Boris being a staunch Zionist, go figure...) The great divide now reinforces the intersectional nature of narrative support. Find me a wokester who supports Hamas, and I bet they will support everything else that Greta does (Climate BS, hate Trump, Trans-rights, evil ICE, BLM, pro-Islam etc). It is a package deal they buy into cos they lack critical insight. In the West they are also generally pampered little fuckwits who are indoctrinated through social 'science' courses at Uni. They have never known the normal hardships of our forebears, ergo they lack gratitude for what they have. In the Islamic world, they are just lapping up the support from these morons as it helps them towards their global caliphate goals. I am sorry to say though, that if we keep being kind and nice as per hitherto, then we are screwed. We need to take the fight back to them.
Yes, it's not really a pick n mix of issues any more, but more a set menu. You need to be into climate change and Gaza, and TDS as well as trans issues and more. A suite as it were, and to even digress on one of these is to see a person thrown out of the group. I suppose it begins to explain why positions are becoming so absurd and also shrill.
Thanks for this Simon. Language matters for it is, in some ways, how we construct our world. If I am correct with that then it follows that how we use language contributes to a more peaceful, collaborative world or a more fraught and dislocated one.
Thanks Sande. For me, language helps express our world. I suppose a small distinction for me that the world exists, or is constructed - and we use language to try and define it, discuss what we believe to be true and so on. As you note, language can contribute positively but I have also seen how it can be destructive.
Absolutely it can be destructive!
I wouldn't call wealth taxes and such similar fiscal measures far-left. As for identity politics, many honest-to-God leftists treat it as a distraction from bread-and-butter issues of the jobs-and-houses-for-all variety, of the sort that are most relevant to the 85% of Māori who now live in urban areas (how many of our supposed far leftists ever talk about that sort of thing?)
it's one of the oddities on the left side, that the traditional issues - housing, welfare, job security etc - have been pushed to the side. I suppose for me, the individual taxes are not necessarily 'far-left' but all together, I think they fit the philosophy (if I can call it that)
A lot of genuinely far-left positions of the past have also been subsumed into the more eco-doomeristic positions of today, with their predictions of the futility of reform and of the coming collapse of capitalist-industrial society any day now, after the fashion of those my parents' generation used to call the "raving Trots;" who, as the joke went, had managed to successfully predict eleven of the last five recessions.
sadly, there are those seeking the collapse of the societies we have built (call it Western capitalist perhaps) with some odd notion that a new utopia will be welcomed. Western society is not perfect, but I'd argue a lot better than many others.
The science fiction writer and critic Brian Aldiss called it the lure of the "cosy catastrophe," the idea that once we smash everything up, whatever emerges from the ruins will somehow automatically be better. Probably the most dangerous idea in politics: the same mentality as that by which the poets went off to war in 1914 like "swimmers into cleanness leaping," as Rupert Brooke put it (and yes, he was one of the first to bite the dust).
Keep shining the light on the debased lies that permiate the MSM. It is high time that we take them to task on these obvious tactics!
To the extent that these musings shed more light on how things operate, and people can see and adapt, then that's a good thing!
It is not without consequence when people choose to use inflammatory words...blowing up a situation....which is actually a lie.
James 3:4 " Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, are still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires. "
The consequences....left and right ships are stealing a course further and further apart.
And free speech, and immigration restrictions used to be leftwing views.
yes, very strange how this is flipped. I get the free speech aspect - it was a pulling up of the ladder. Free speech was championed till the progressives got what they wanted, then it was time to oppose the speech of others.