The Greens chanting terrible slogans causes at lot of offence but it also provides three reasons as to why they are wrong - and hypocritical - about so many things.
It is a paradox that the present day Western political opposition to Israel comes from the extremes of the left and the right. That fact in itself suggests flakiness and delusion.
In contrast to the 1988 Hamas charter, the 2017 covenant separates the struggle against Zionism from general antisemitism, stating Hamas fights Zionists, not for their Jewishness but because of their "illegal" project:
'Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, antisemitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage.'
...and very interesting too. However, although the written protestations of Hamas are to eradicate 'Zionism' their actions, their chants and their purpose 'from the river to the sea...' is a clear call to eradicate Jews. Surely that means no justice or peace will prevail. Ever.
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free.'
It means exactly what it says: it is a call for Apartheid Israel, a racist state that holds millions in subjection, to be transformed into a normal liberal democracy where all have equal rights regardless of language, culture, religion, or purported ethnicity, just as we have in New Zealand.
Excellent commentary, Simon. The hypocrisy is mind-blowing.
Regarding your reflection on the similar treatment of 'minority views' during covid: looking back, how do you feel the National Party handled things in terms of, for example, listening to medical professionals with views that differed from the norm? Was National's call not also, 'that people should follow only what the majority said; the minority should have no influence"? (am stirring, yes, ha! but it's important to a lot of people).
As noted, many were calling for minority views to be ignored/sidelined and this includes some (many?) in National. I think therefore a mixed report card for the Party. At some points was calling for examination of all views but at other times, complicit with government and media in decrying alternative viewpoints. On positive side, I recall National calling for a select committee to be formed to hear various views. But negatively, many times that caught up with the hysteria as well.
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free.'
It means exactly what it says: it is a call for Apartheid Israel, a racist state that holds millions in subjection, to be transformed into a normal liberal democracy where all have equal rights regardless of language, culture, religion, or purported ethnicity, just as we have in New Zealand.
Simon O'Connor's essay here is more or less a copy of Zionist Dane Giraud's denunciation of Chloe Swarbrick for the Free Speech Union. O'Connor manages to slide in a sly reference to Hamas, presumably so that readers will be left thinking 'Mmmm, Chloe, Hamas, Chloe, Hamas'...
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free' is deliberately misrepresented as murderous and anti-semitic only by Zionists and others who cheer the expulsion of Palestinians from their homeland and their replacement by colonists. If the cap fits, Simon ....
There's nothing wrong with it. You're over-reacting.
It doesn't have to mean what you're imagining. Have you actually asked Chloe for her interpretation?
Surely there's a lot that could be said for a single unitary state in Palestine, with Jewish, Christian and Muslim components, and with one-man-one-vote democracy. And each respecting the others,
Interesting fact is that the hatred of Jews stems from the belief,from early times, that the Jews killed Christ. Those who wish their demise today are, most probably Atheist..
Lookup the Zionist narrative of “from the brook of Egypt to Euphrates” before you too far down the path of getting an AIPAC guy. Very similar rhetoric. Neither side are innocent babes here
Hello Simon, I really appreciate a lot of your work. You once gave a talk at my church and Catholic young adults group and we had a brief chat. But on this it is important to issue some clarifications:
"From the River to the Sea" is a slogan that symbolises the liberation of the Holy Land from Zionism. It is not a hateful slogan.
We Catholics believe that Zionism is a heretical ideology, as Pope Saint Pius X stated. The Arabs are the indigenous people of the Holy Land, amongst which there are both Christians and Muslims. Much of the Palestinian diaspora is Christian because Israel dispossessed them from their land.
Zion, in the Catholic understanding, is our heavenly homeland, the heavenly city of Jerusalem. It is a metaphysical reality, which is promised to the Church Triumphant by Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Israel is a false entity contrived after the Second World War. It has caused nothing but trouble since it was founded.
It is also blasphemous for the people who reject Christ Our Lord to control the Holy Land. According to the Talmud, Christ Our Lord is burning in Hell forever, This is what Jews believe about Our Lord, God, and Saviour. The Talmud also describes our Most Blessed Mother as a "whore". Israel is the Church under the New Covenant, not a genocidal ethno-state.
Netanyahu's government does not hide its attitude towards Christians. High-ranking members of his cabinet have said it is alright to spit on Christians, and that in fact, this is a Jewish custom that ought to be encouraged.
Israel supports every anti-Christian regime there is and opposes the only pro-Christian governments in the Middle East, such as that of President Assad.
Israel imprisoned a Catholic bishop, Hilarion Capucci, back in the 1970s.
Israel shot and killed Catholic women at the Holy Family Church in Gaza and threw bombs at the Greek Orthodox church, killing almost 20 people.
Israel also supports the genocidal Muslim Azeri regime which has ethnically cleansed the Armenians, the oldest Christians in the world, from their ancestral land.
Simon, do you know what the Christians in the region actually think of Israel? For example, the Melkite Catholic Patriarch His Beatitude Youssef Absi said:
"We pray for our brothers and sisters, our sons and daughters in Gaza, all of them who are being persecuted, crushed and annihilated by genocide. The sinful hands of the Israeli enemy, which does not give weight or respect to international laws, decisions, conventions and treaties, but rather disdains and ignores it, has been oppressing, killing and displacing for seventy-five years without any scruple or deterrence, in full view and hearing of many of the leaders of countries, their presidents and those in power who are turning their eyes away from what is happening in Gaza today as if they lost all human feeling and every human conscience. They are possessed by selfishness, greed, and cruelty."
As long as the conservative movement is beholden to Israel, it will destroy us. We have to free ourselves from support of an anti-Christian genocidal regime.
Jesus wept! You're worse than Simon O'Connor. It is utterly anti-semitic to state as you do that 'It is also blasphemous for the people who reject Christ Our Lord to control the Holy Land.'
What a curse religion is.
I'll state it again:
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free.'
It means exactly what it says: it is a call for Apartheid Israel, a racist state that holds millions in subjection, to be transformed into a normal liberal democracy where all have equal rights regardless of language, culture, religion, or purported ethnicity, just as we have in New Zealand.
A beautiful distillation of some key points. I'm all for listing to the minority—the majority are often too busy with their own lives—and certainly for free speech—if nothing else, it makes it easier to tell who the idiots are.
The Hamas Charter is here... https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas
It is a paradox that the present day Western political opposition to Israel comes from the extremes of the left and the right. That fact in itself suggests flakiness and delusion.
it's a very disturbing charter and yet often ignored by many.
Rejection of antisemitism
In contrast to the 1988 Hamas charter, the 2017 covenant separates the struggle against Zionism from general antisemitism, stating Hamas fights Zionists, not for their Jewishness but because of their "illegal" project:
'Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, antisemitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Hamas_charter
What exactly then is the Zionist project?
Bezalel Smotrich would probably be eager to tell you:
https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/6/28/israels-smotrich-promises-a-million-new-settlers-under-expansion-plan
https://archive.is/48U3n
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israeli-far-right-minister-bezalel-smotrich-annex-west-bank
https://archive.is/554Ij
https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-recorded-describing-mega-dramatic-plan-for-civilian-control-over-west-bank/
Thanks. Food for thought.
...and very interesting too. However, although the written protestations of Hamas are to eradicate 'Zionism' their actions, their chants and their purpose 'from the river to the sea...' is a clear call to eradicate Jews. Surely that means no justice or peace will prevail. Ever.
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free.'
It means exactly what it says: it is a call for Apartheid Israel, a racist state that holds millions in subjection, to be transformed into a normal liberal democracy where all have equal rights regardless of language, culture, religion, or purported ethnicity, just as we have in New Zealand.
Excellent commentary, Simon. The hypocrisy is mind-blowing.
Regarding your reflection on the similar treatment of 'minority views' during covid: looking back, how do you feel the National Party handled things in terms of, for example, listening to medical professionals with views that differed from the norm? Was National's call not also, 'that people should follow only what the majority said; the minority should have no influence"? (am stirring, yes, ha! but it's important to a lot of people).
As noted, many were calling for minority views to be ignored/sidelined and this includes some (many?) in National. I think therefore a mixed report card for the Party. At some points was calling for examination of all views but at other times, complicit with government and media in decrying alternative viewpoints. On positive side, I recall National calling for a select committee to be formed to hear various views. But negatively, many times that caught up with the hysteria as well.
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free.'
It means exactly what it says: it is a call for Apartheid Israel, a racist state that holds millions in subjection, to be transformed into a normal liberal democracy where all have equal rights regardless of language, culture, religion, or purported ethnicity, just as we have in New Zealand.
Simon O'Connor's essay here is more or less a copy of Zionist Dane Giraud's denunciation of Chloe Swarbrick for the Free Speech Union. O'Connor manages to slide in a sly reference to Hamas, presumably so that readers will be left thinking 'Mmmm, Chloe, Hamas, Chloe, Hamas'...
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free' is deliberately misrepresented as murderous and anti-semitic only by Zionists and others who cheer the expulsion of Palestinians from their homeland and their replacement by colonists. If the cap fits, Simon ....
There's nothing wrong with it. You're over-reacting.
It doesn't have to mean what you're imagining. Have you actually asked Chloe for her interpretation?
Surely there's a lot that could be said for a single unitary state in Palestine, with Jewish, Christian and Muslim components, and with one-man-one-vote democracy. And each respecting the others,
Interesting fact is that the hatred of Jews stems from the belief,from early times, that the Jews killed Christ. Those who wish their demise today are, most probably Atheist..
Lookup the Zionist narrative of “from the brook of Egypt to Euphrates” before you too far down the path of getting an AIPAC guy. Very similar rhetoric. Neither side are innocent babes here
https://politicstoday.org/a-legacy-of-terror-in-palestine-from-plan-dalet-to-gaza-today/
Hello Simon, I really appreciate a lot of your work. You once gave a talk at my church and Catholic young adults group and we had a brief chat. But on this it is important to issue some clarifications:
"From the River to the Sea" is a slogan that symbolises the liberation of the Holy Land from Zionism. It is not a hateful slogan.
We Catholics believe that Zionism is a heretical ideology, as Pope Saint Pius X stated. The Arabs are the indigenous people of the Holy Land, amongst which there are both Christians and Muslims. Much of the Palestinian diaspora is Christian because Israel dispossessed them from their land.
Zion, in the Catholic understanding, is our heavenly homeland, the heavenly city of Jerusalem. It is a metaphysical reality, which is promised to the Church Triumphant by Our Lord Jesus Christ.
Israel is a false entity contrived after the Second World War. It has caused nothing but trouble since it was founded.
It is also blasphemous for the people who reject Christ Our Lord to control the Holy Land. According to the Talmud, Christ Our Lord is burning in Hell forever, This is what Jews believe about Our Lord, God, and Saviour. The Talmud also describes our Most Blessed Mother as a "whore". Israel is the Church under the New Covenant, not a genocidal ethno-state.
Netanyahu's government does not hide its attitude towards Christians. High-ranking members of his cabinet have said it is alright to spit on Christians, and that in fact, this is a Jewish custom that ought to be encouraged.
Israel supports every anti-Christian regime there is and opposes the only pro-Christian governments in the Middle East, such as that of President Assad.
Israel imprisoned a Catholic bishop, Hilarion Capucci, back in the 1970s.
Israel shot and killed Catholic women at the Holy Family Church in Gaza and threw bombs at the Greek Orthodox church, killing almost 20 people.
Israel also supports the genocidal Muslim Azeri regime which has ethnically cleansed the Armenians, the oldest Christians in the world, from their ancestral land.
Simon, do you know what the Christians in the region actually think of Israel? For example, the Melkite Catholic Patriarch His Beatitude Youssef Absi said:
"We pray for our brothers and sisters, our sons and daughters in Gaza, all of them who are being persecuted, crushed and annihilated by genocide. The sinful hands of the Israeli enemy, which does not give weight or respect to international laws, decisions, conventions and treaties, but rather disdains and ignores it, has been oppressing, killing and displacing for seventy-five years without any scruple or deterrence, in full view and hearing of many of the leaders of countries, their presidents and those in power who are turning their eyes away from what is happening in Gaza today as if they lost all human feeling and every human conscience. They are possessed by selfishness, greed, and cruelty."
As long as the conservative movement is beholden to Israel, it will destroy us. We have to free ourselves from support of an anti-Christian genocidal regime.
Jesus wept! You're worse than Simon O'Connor. It is utterly anti-semitic to state as you do that 'It is also blasphemous for the people who reject Christ Our Lord to control the Holy Land.'
What a curse religion is.
I'll state it again:
'From the River to the Sea, Palestine shall be free.'
It means exactly what it says: it is a call for Apartheid Israel, a racist state that holds millions in subjection, to be transformed into a normal liberal democracy where all have equal rights regardless of language, culture, religion, or purported ethnicity, just as we have in New Zealand.
A beautiful distillation of some key points. I'm all for listing to the minority—the majority are often too busy with their own lives—and certainly for free speech—if nothing else, it makes it easier to tell who the idiots are.