If you want to be respected, then it's important to show respect in kind. The actions of the Maori Party in Parliament are both an insight and a warning into who they really are.
Thanks Chris. If parliament doesn't respond accordingly, it will just get worse. Opportunities to nip this in the bud have been ignore in the past, and look where we are at!
Not optimistic about Parliament (and I used to be a political lobbyist). But you're right. I think some of the people "at the top" have been captured by an ideology that ignores the core values which historically have been at the heart of our society. My background is in comms/PR -- let me know if ever I can help. 0221517988
This is a crucial point in our modern political discourse. I've been reading your articles for a bit and while I've disagreed with some of your points (probably for the same reasons I've never voted National), you are civil and articulate in outlining your positions. This article is no different and you hit the nail on the head with your title "Respect to be respected".
The strangest thing for me in this debate is that David Seymour has repeatedly defended his position in hostile media interviews, but most of his opponents have addressed sympathetic media while parroting simplistic ideas about racism that don't address his core constitutional arguments. Ironically, the most substantive arguments against the bill that I've seen have come from Winston Peters and Shane Jones who sit on the same side of the house as Mr. Seymour.
I was hoping to see some genuine arguments in the house about the bill, but instead was dismayed to see the chaos that unfolded. How can we have a civil society if the example set by our elected representatives is that throwing tantrums and refusing to engage in good faith debate is an acceptable way to deal with complicated issues?
Thanks Stephen. I think people disagreeing in natural and normal. As you say, it's how we go about this. The increasing emotional and chaotic approach does everyone harm, and certainly prevents meaningful discussion. It is one reason I think the Speaker needs to take firm control and deal to the troublemakers so as to send a signal that 'good faith debate' is acceptable and not what we saw last evening.
I fully agree with your article. I'm not very conversant with the workings of Parliament and when I saw the Speaker responding rather lamely to the antics of TPM and the Greens I thought he must have limited powers that prevented anything stronger. Why were those disrupters and disrespecters allowed to largely get away with it? And what can an ordinary citizen do? I find that when I write to my MP (Coromandel)or any other MP about issues (most recently the Treaty Principles Bill) I get a bland reply which tells me that my views and wishes for NZ carry no weight at all.
Never give up on writing to your MP. They might give a weak response, but they are usually taking note. Plus, you can always write again and note that said response is weak and your would expect more.
As you say it's easy to tear things down, much harder to build something. But clearly the motives of these power hungry protagonists is to undermine social cohesion, and the National Sovereignty of our Nation State. Beyond that the practical details haven't been thought through to create something better than what we have. The level of reasoned debate and counter arguments is virtually non existent beyond name calling, while the MSM lends legitimacy to a one sided version of this important issue.
I wrote an earlier piece on aspects of this as I also think they believe in a utopia. That the past was utopic and they can re-create it. They won't be able too of course, including as it never existed in the first place!
Rabid Maori Party MPs are rapidly destroying any goodwill they hope to gain with this disgusting display of uncivil and bullying behaviour.
The Speaker must standup and penalise them in the harshest manner. Anything less will be taken as permission to display more even contempt. Hurt them in their pockets and prevent them from entry to parliament for a decent period - not a mere 24 hours. Unbelievable!
I’ve been told to “go home” for less so here goes: There is no civilisation without civility.
Those that align themselves or sympathise with the Maori Party - whether they be Maori, European, Indian, Chinese, Pacifika or other - while also hoping for peace, compromise, kindness etc. must be conflicted by the party leadership’s actions.
Unless of course they believe that the means justify the ends. Which leads me to ponder: Would they justify burning down the house to reclaim the land? Is the house really so rotten?
All I can suggest is that they look at any one of our South Pacific neighbours and ask themselves if they’d prefer living there with an average income and no opportunity for graft or status related spoils?
Do not forget the fulminations of Willie Jackson. A misogynost and racist who had a deal to promote a tour 2012... (which would have netted him big money and for which he had printed the tshirts)of a domestic violence perpetrator (punched Ms Givens in the face)and wrote in his bio it was 'the best punch of his entire career' the convicted 1992 Rapist ( six to ten year sentence of which he did only 3 years, a convicted cocaine user $US 200, 000 fine and counts of violence against Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, supposedly under the influence of cocaine. 'Great bloke' to korero with the rangatahi...Mike Tyson. Jackson was ptomoting him as a role model and when he foind out I was partly responsible by my research for the revoking of Tyson's visa called for me 'to be taught a lesson' on his radio show. After that Jacinda made him a cabinet minister.
In respect to the ‘Treaty Principles Bill’, I would like to urge all NEW ZEALANDERS to review the ‘Treaty of Waitangi’ based on what it actually states, NOT ‘imagined’ into meaning something that was never stated; becoming a veritable ‘wish list’ after the fact!
Importantly, I would also like to draw your attention to a copy of the Treaty that was found in 1989, which the Maori translation we have today is a direct translation of!
New Zealand can not afford nor should it have to be hamstrung by ‘interpretations’ of the Treaty that are NOT in fact part of the Treaty, which consists of a very straightforward ‘pre-amble’, & the ‘three articles’ that make up the Treaty!
That is why there needs to be a conversation today about the Treaty, so that we can come to a ‘collective & accurate’ understanding of what it actually says!
A nation can not be run on ‘feelings & nostalgia’! It must be founded on ‘truth’, NOT opinion, speculation, nor “what I really meant to say or thought ..”!
It behoves Parliament today to get to that ‘truth’ so our nation can move forward as ‘one people’, as Captain William Hobson ‘notably stated’ following the signing of the Treaty!
That would ‘directly and indirectly’ serve our ‘economy’ very well; removing the ‘gravy train’, that is the ‘Treaty Industrialised Complex’ who profit from this ‘Treaty ignorance’, & also call out successive governments for their lack of calling a ‘spade a spade’ & taking decisive ACTION!
Mt 16:26 “For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul”? Similarly, Mt 6:19-33
Overall, the ‘proof is in the pudding’, as we compare both European & Maori circumstances today, to those of 1840!
I totally, totally support this Simon. Well said.
Thanks Chris. If parliament doesn't respond accordingly, it will just get worse. Opportunities to nip this in the bud have been ignore in the past, and look where we are at!
Not optimistic about Parliament (and I used to be a political lobbyist). But you're right. I think some of the people "at the top" have been captured by an ideology that ignores the core values which historically have been at the heart of our society. My background is in comms/PR -- let me know if ever I can help. 0221517988
sorry 0221617988
This is a crucial point in our modern political discourse. I've been reading your articles for a bit and while I've disagreed with some of your points (probably for the same reasons I've never voted National), you are civil and articulate in outlining your positions. This article is no different and you hit the nail on the head with your title "Respect to be respected".
The strangest thing for me in this debate is that David Seymour has repeatedly defended his position in hostile media interviews, but most of his opponents have addressed sympathetic media while parroting simplistic ideas about racism that don't address his core constitutional arguments. Ironically, the most substantive arguments against the bill that I've seen have come from Winston Peters and Shane Jones who sit on the same side of the house as Mr. Seymour.
I was hoping to see some genuine arguments in the house about the bill, but instead was dismayed to see the chaos that unfolded. How can we have a civil society if the example set by our elected representatives is that throwing tantrums and refusing to engage in good faith debate is an acceptable way to deal with complicated issues?
Thanks Stephen. I think people disagreeing in natural and normal. As you say, it's how we go about this. The increasing emotional and chaotic approach does everyone harm, and certainly prevents meaningful discussion. It is one reason I think the Speaker needs to take firm control and deal to the troublemakers so as to send a signal that 'good faith debate' is acceptable and not what we saw last evening.
I fully agree with your article. I'm not very conversant with the workings of Parliament and when I saw the Speaker responding rather lamely to the antics of TPM and the Greens I thought he must have limited powers that prevented anything stronger. Why were those disrupters and disrespecters allowed to largely get away with it? And what can an ordinary citizen do? I find that when I write to my MP (Coromandel)or any other MP about issues (most recently the Treaty Principles Bill) I get a bland reply which tells me that my views and wishes for NZ carry no weight at all.
Never give up on writing to your MP. They might give a weak response, but they are usually taking note. Plus, you can always write again and note that said response is weak and your would expect more.
As you say it's easy to tear things down, much harder to build something. But clearly the motives of these power hungry protagonists is to undermine social cohesion, and the National Sovereignty of our Nation State. Beyond that the practical details haven't been thought through to create something better than what we have. The level of reasoned debate and counter arguments is virtually non existent beyond name calling, while the MSM lends legitimacy to a one sided version of this important issue.
I wrote an earlier piece on aspects of this as I also think they believe in a utopia. That the past was utopic and they can re-create it. They won't be able too of course, including as it never existed in the first place!
Time we got a speaker with a backbone.
He certainly needs to show leadership here. The consequences to date are not enough.
speakers.office@parliament.govt.nz
We can email to encourage him in not being a pussycat. Nicely of course, in accordance with parliamentary decorum.
Rabid Maori Party MPs are rapidly destroying any goodwill they hope to gain with this disgusting display of uncivil and bullying behaviour.
The Speaker must standup and penalise them in the harshest manner. Anything less will be taken as permission to display more even contempt. Hurt them in their pockets and prevent them from entry to parliament for a decent period - not a mere 24 hours. Unbelievable!
Yes, I suspect the actions of the last few days has lost them support rather than gained any.
I’ve been told to “go home” for less so here goes: There is no civilisation without civility.
Those that align themselves or sympathise with the Maori Party - whether they be Maori, European, Indian, Chinese, Pacifika or other - while also hoping for peace, compromise, kindness etc. must be conflicted by the party leadership’s actions.
Unless of course they believe that the means justify the ends. Which leads me to ponder: Would they justify burning down the house to reclaim the land? Is the house really so rotten?
All I can suggest is that they look at any one of our South Pacific neighbours and ask themselves if they’d prefer living there with an average income and no opportunity for graft or status related spoils?
Do not forget the fulminations of Willie Jackson. A misogynost and racist who had a deal to promote a tour 2012... (which would have netted him big money and for which he had printed the tshirts)of a domestic violence perpetrator (punched Ms Givens in the face)and wrote in his bio it was 'the best punch of his entire career' the convicted 1992 Rapist ( six to ten year sentence of which he did only 3 years, a convicted cocaine user $US 200, 000 fine and counts of violence against Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis, supposedly under the influence of cocaine. 'Great bloke' to korero with the rangatahi...Mike Tyson. Jackson was ptomoting him as a role model and when he foind out I was partly responsible by my research for the revoking of Tyson's visa called for me 'to be taught a lesson' on his radio show. After that Jacinda made him a cabinet minister.
Send them all to China on a fact finding mission, the Chinese know how to deal with dissident minorities
The Hikoi reaches wellington on Tuesday - how many taking part will it take for you to consider you are on the wrong side of history?
Well said Simon!
In respect to the ‘Treaty Principles Bill’, I would like to urge all NEW ZEALANDERS to review the ‘Treaty of Waitangi’ based on what it actually states, NOT ‘imagined’ into meaning something that was never stated; becoming a veritable ‘wish list’ after the fact!
Importantly, I would also like to draw your attention to a copy of the Treaty that was found in 1989, which the Maori translation we have today is a direct translation of!
https://www.treatyofwaitangi.net.nz/LoveridgeResponse/LoveridgeResponse.htm
You may also find Sir Apirana Ngata’s perspective on the Treaty helpful in considering what the Treaty actually states:
https://www.nzcpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/TreatyOfWaitangiBySirApiranaNgata.pdf
New Zealand can not afford nor should it have to be hamstrung by ‘interpretations’ of the Treaty that are NOT in fact part of the Treaty, which consists of a very straightforward ‘pre-amble’, & the ‘three articles’ that make up the Treaty!
That is why there needs to be a conversation today about the Treaty, so that we can come to a ‘collective & accurate’ understanding of what it actually says!
Currently the ‘Treaty Principles Bill’ is supported by a majority of New Zealanders! https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2410/S00086/another-poll-finds-treaty-principles-bill-support-21-even-as-opposition-parties-rally-against.htm
A nation can not be run on ‘feelings & nostalgia’! It must be founded on ‘truth’, NOT opinion, speculation, nor “what I really meant to say or thought ..”!
It behoves Parliament today to get to that ‘truth’ so our nation can move forward as ‘one people’, as Captain William Hobson ‘notably stated’ following the signing of the Treaty!
There has been far too much division, wasted time & money over something that was actually sorted in 1840 & confirmed by Maori leaders in Kohimarama, 1860: https://ahnz.anarkiwi.co.nz/1860-kohimarama-conference/
That would ‘directly and indirectly’ serve our ‘economy’ very well; removing the ‘gravy train’, that is the ‘Treaty Industrialised Complex’ who profit from this ‘Treaty ignorance’, & also call out successive governments for their lack of calling a ‘spade a spade’ & taking decisive ACTION!
Mt 16:26 “For what will it profit a man, if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul”? Similarly, Mt 6:19-33
Overall, the ‘proof is in the pudding’, as we compare both European & Maori circumstances today, to those of 1840!
“Anyone want to go back to life pre-1840”?