My grandfather fought with the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and in retracing his footsteps, I have felt a sense of pride while also collating an array of questions.
Now you've touched on something near and dear to my heart! I have a piece of writing I'm working on a related topic on why we feel drawn to discover our ancestral stories.
Not to take away from the pride you feel for your grandfather, but adding that I think you might have captured one thread there when you said, "Both sides fought for a cause they believed in or at the very least, felt compelled to be part of."
I think of a family I've researched where four generations of males were in the military (from the Crimean War to World War I) and heavily decorated - a father, son, grandson and great grandson. They were men of strong conviction. But then a different turn for the 2x great grandson. Instead of enlisting for service in World War II, he was a minister in the church and a conscientious objector. In 1940, he appeared before the London Tribunal and said, "to take part in military service was definitely contrary to the whole tenor of the revealed will of God." Rightly or wrongly, his convictions were no less strong but led him another direction. His descendants are proud of him, as well as being proud of the previous generations who served their country.
We can acknowledge the courage, sacrifice, convictions and decisions of our ancestors, and at the same time, recognise that there is cultural and historical context to these things. We have the advantage of looking back and studying history, whereas they were just trying to do the right thing with what information they had at the time.
Great article Simon. I hope you keep sharing on the topic in future.
The real question is, do you support the All Blacks or Ireland?
I think the pride comes from knowing your grandfather was prepared to 'lay down his life' for what he believed in! From defending home, friends, village, our nation & our beliefs! Jn 15:12-13
I understand your feelings about this but I have had discussions with my daughter in laws parents who live in Cork and are proudly Irish. They still talk about "what the English have done to us for 800 years". They have a strong feeling of justification for the defending their homeland which I can understand. Interestingly they are great admirers of the British royal family. I can't quite get my head around that.
Thanks Miriam. It's not so much me making comment about the war itself, for like your daughter in laws parents, I can appreciate the why and the terrible history behind it. It's more questioning would we always feel proud of an ancestors actions - would there be circumstances we might feel differently? As I wrote, I remain proud of my grandfather.
Back in the good old days when you could fight against the Empire in a battle and then move to one of the colonies to build it up elsewhere the next day. Interesting bit of history there, thanks for sharing.
County cork was routed by the English in the18th century my ancestors and in Queen Elizabeth 1 and Cromwells time my great + uncles marryre. The English burned and ransacked Irish churches and confiscated land Made priests illegal and Irish dancing. The IRA at the time tried to get independence from Britain in a marxist way but to what avail?Now the Irish and their hard won independence have surrendered to the EU.
I understand your feelings about this but I have had discussions with my daughter in laws parents who live in Cork and are proudly Irish. They still talk about "what the English have done to us for 800 years". They have a strong feeling of justification for the defending their homeland which I can understand. Interestingly they are great admirers of the British royal family. I can't quite get my head around that.
Now you've touched on something near and dear to my heart! I have a piece of writing I'm working on a related topic on why we feel drawn to discover our ancestral stories.
Not to take away from the pride you feel for your grandfather, but adding that I think you might have captured one thread there when you said, "Both sides fought for a cause they believed in or at the very least, felt compelled to be part of."
I think of a family I've researched where four generations of males were in the military (from the Crimean War to World War I) and heavily decorated - a father, son, grandson and great grandson. They were men of strong conviction. But then a different turn for the 2x great grandson. Instead of enlisting for service in World War II, he was a minister in the church and a conscientious objector. In 1940, he appeared before the London Tribunal and said, "to take part in military service was definitely contrary to the whole tenor of the revealed will of God." Rightly or wrongly, his convictions were no less strong but led him another direction. His descendants are proud of him, as well as being proud of the previous generations who served their country.
We can acknowledge the courage, sacrifice, convictions and decisions of our ancestors, and at the same time, recognise that there is cultural and historical context to these things. We have the advantage of looking back and studying history, whereas they were just trying to do the right thing with what information they had at the time.
Great article Simon. I hope you keep sharing on the topic in future.
this will be a great Substack to read, so I look forward to reading it when you publish. A really fascinating angle.
The real question is, do you support the All Blacks or Ireland?
I think the pride comes from knowing your grandfather was prepared to 'lay down his life' for what he believed in! From defending home, friends, village, our nation & our beliefs! Jn 15:12-13
I think God is teaching you something re the future of NZ & what sort of country we want to have! What is our commitment to a 'free God-fearing nation', as prescribed in our 'national anthem'! https://www.lyricsondemand.com/n/nationalanthemlyrics/newzealandnationalanthemlyrics.html
Freedoms have always been hard fought for! We are NOT there yet!
A key question. The All Blacks :)
I understand your feelings about this but I have had discussions with my daughter in laws parents who live in Cork and are proudly Irish. They still talk about "what the English have done to us for 800 years". They have a strong feeling of justification for the defending their homeland which I can understand. Interestingly they are great admirers of the British royal family. I can't quite get my head around that.
Thanks Miriam. It's not so much me making comment about the war itself, for like your daughter in laws parents, I can appreciate the why and the terrible history behind it. It's more questioning would we always feel proud of an ancestors actions - would there be circumstances we might feel differently? As I wrote, I remain proud of my grandfather.
Back in the good old days when you could fight against the Empire in a battle and then move to one of the colonies to build it up elsewhere the next day. Interesting bit of history there, thanks for sharing.
County cork was routed by the English in the18th century my ancestors and in Queen Elizabeth 1 and Cromwells time my great + uncles marryre. The English burned and ransacked Irish churches and confiscated land Made priests illegal and Irish dancing. The IRA at the time tried to get independence from Britain in a marxist way but to what avail?Now the Irish and their hard won independence have surrendered to the EU.
I understand your feelings about this but I have had discussions with my daughter in laws parents who live in Cork and are proudly Irish. They still talk about "what the English have done to us for 800 years". They have a strong feeling of justification for the defending their homeland which I can understand. Interestingly they are great admirers of the British royal family. I can't quite get my head around that.