There’s definitely a sense these days that some views can’t be questioned without getting piled on. You see it a lot with Treaty-related stuff or anything tied to progressive causes. People are quick to cancel or shame anyone who steps outside the accepted narrative, and that’s not great for open debate.
That said, Bishop didn’t exactly help himself. Getting a few beers in and then calling a performance “a load of crap” isn’t a good look, especially for a Minister. He’s allowed to have an opinion, but there’s a better way to say it. If you’re in government and want to challenge something, do it with a bit more thought and respect.
We need to make space for disagreement without jumping straight to outrage – and we need our leaders to lead with more than just heat.
Agreed including may have been more prudent to have just enjoyed the night and held back though ltd. This said, people are still allowed to speak and as you say, there doesn’t need to be a pile on and instant move to outrage.
Wise piece Simon. Our two-tier society allows the left to vent spleen at whim & to politicise any occasion that they want, but conservatives & genuine libertarians are not ‘permitted’ to speak. It’s 1984 all day long and the media is the real evil here with their biased narratives.
“Safe” - death knell to originality, creativity and intellectual rigour. I wish people who think like this would stick to supervising the sandpit at the local Playcentre.
I’m yet to read or hear you say anything remotely intelligent or relevant Simon. Context matters. The tobacco lobbyist is as liberal as donor politics. He’s certainly not liberal in the classical economics sense. They were anti cartel. Whereas nact are clearly pro cartel, and a key part of selling Nz out for total privatisation is killing the treaty as a constitutional document, through unconstitutional, unmandated, and undemocrstic means. A plague on you and your ilk of self serving hypocrites. Hell awaits you all. If it exists
Your exclamation is. Rebut my assertion. This is the most corrupt government in our history. Hence transparency internationals downgrade of nzs perception of corruption. Have a great day fool
You are an arrogant alarmist! You can't be taken seriously with statements such as "I’m yet to read or hear you say anything remotely intelligent or relevant Simon. Context matters".
Yes context does matter! What are you blathering on about!
A corrupt coalition of corporate chaos is waging war on the people of New Zealand and our fragile constitution. Eg. The ‘treaty principles’ bill, and the more dangerous regulatory standards bill.
David Seymour personally seems keen on civil war as the ultimate ‘divide and conquer’ of kiwis to protect corporate interests from public interest law.
Meanwhile, Maori MPs are unusually harshly sanctioned for protesting an abuse of parliamentary and constitutional process with the only means they had to express their opposition.
Given these facts, some form of cultural backlash is to be expected. It’s not ‘a load of crap’, it’s totally predictable consequences / reaction
Simple! Stop Funding these 'Awards', especially as they are promoting 'Tino Rangatiratanga' = Treason & a violation of the Treaty!
How ironic, Maori have been saying, "Honour the Treaty for decades'! But they haven't been! I say honour the actual Treaty, NOT the one dreamt up & engineered by the Waitangi Tribunal!
Read the 'Littlewood Draft', the 'FINAL' English draft that the Maori version was translated from!
Unfortunately this is just another 'weak Govt' not doing what it said it would do, yet quickly condemn those who have united with the 'letter & spirit 'of the Treaty, 'now we are ONE people' centring on the Crown & British law as the Treaty states, & who have paid their taxes & built up New Zealand to become a modern day productive state, compared to pre-1840!
Winston Peters & NZ First should be doing a lot more than they are in respect to this current 'Gunpowder, Treason & Plot' going on!
Meaning, at least Peters should have supported Seymour's 'Treaty Principles Bill' & not bulldusted us about there being no 'principles'! Principle is a synonym for articles as so clauses*, rules, laws, points! *as in the Magna Carta
NZers are capable of distinguishing between the so called 'Waitangi Tribunal Principles' & another set of Principles based on the actual Treaty itself as the polls showed!
Peters to the detriment of all NZers was playing 'political semantics' to score points for himself once again, as in 'Peters First'!
I would call it low-life behavior by Chris Bishop. Who cares what he thinks, and doesnt he know when to shut up. He obviously just feels too self-important.
Yes but Bishop is a politician interjecting in the middle of a public music performance. Why are you comparing that with us sharing a few posts online?
Extending Simon’s original point about a media beat-up - this is totally a storm in a tea cup. A man (that’s his first mistake) expresses an opinion and it creates a media storm - what has this country come to? For god’s sake let’s move on!
Nice one Simon, thanks for writing this piece.
There’s definitely a sense these days that some views can’t be questioned without getting piled on. You see it a lot with Treaty-related stuff or anything tied to progressive causes. People are quick to cancel or shame anyone who steps outside the accepted narrative, and that’s not great for open debate.
That said, Bishop didn’t exactly help himself. Getting a few beers in and then calling a performance “a load of crap” isn’t a good look, especially for a Minister. He’s allowed to have an opinion, but there’s a better way to say it. If you’re in government and want to challenge something, do it with a bit more thought and respect.
We need to make space for disagreement without jumping straight to outrage – and we need our leaders to lead with more than just heat.
Agreed including may have been more prudent to have just enjoyed the night and held back though ltd. This said, people are still allowed to speak and as you say, there doesn’t need to be a pile on and instant move to outrage.
Wise piece Simon. Our two-tier society allows the left to vent spleen at whim & to politicise any occasion that they want, but conservatives & genuine libertarians are not ‘permitted’ to speak. It’s 1984 all day long and the media is the real evil here with their biased narratives.
100%
Great article thanks, Simon.
“Safe” - death knell to originality, creativity and intellectual rigour. I wish people who think like this would stick to supervising the sandpit at the local Playcentre.
100% - it has become a key word to stifle so much and, ironically, making society less cohesive and safe.
Your exposure of Hypocrisy is absolutelt on-p;oint. Thank you.
Thanks Gavin. My hope that if we talk about these double standards more, we’ll eventually see more people see through it.
Is it okay to announce that art progresses society when art ALWAYS "progresses "to the left?
Is it okay to call Stan Walker an artist just because a few thousand meth heads think he's cool? Personally, I am with Chris, I think he's crap.
Isn't your comment actually a description of yourself?
No doubt people like you will form your own unfounded conclusions.
I’m yet to read or hear you say anything remotely intelligent or relevant Simon. Context matters. The tobacco lobbyist is as liberal as donor politics. He’s certainly not liberal in the classical economics sense. They were anti cartel. Whereas nact are clearly pro cartel, and a key part of selling Nz out for total privatisation is killing the treaty as a constitutional document, through unconstitutional, unmandated, and undemocrstic means. A plague on you and your ilk of self serving hypocrites. Hell awaits you all. If it exists
What a load of crap.
Your exclamation is. Rebut my assertion. This is the most corrupt government in our history. Hence transparency internationals downgrade of nzs perception of corruption. Have a great day fool
You are an arrogant alarmist! You can't be taken seriously with statements such as "I’m yet to read or hear you say anything remotely intelligent or relevant Simon. Context matters".
Yes context does matter! What are you blathering on about!
Get off your high horse!
Read closely, here is the context.
A corrupt coalition of corporate chaos is waging war on the people of New Zealand and our fragile constitution. Eg. The ‘treaty principles’ bill, and the more dangerous regulatory standards bill.
David Seymour personally seems keen on civil war as the ultimate ‘divide and conquer’ of kiwis to protect corporate interests from public interest law.
Meanwhile, Maori MPs are unusually harshly sanctioned for protesting an abuse of parliamentary and constitutional process with the only means they had to express their opposition.
Given these facts, some form of cultural backlash is to be expected. It’s not ‘a load of crap’, it’s totally predictable consequences / reaction
The objections to righteous anger so often come from anonymous accounts
Have a lay down
Yeah, nah. Are you crazy?
Do laws that are lies make you hard? Does injustice and unethical economic stupidity ring your bells? I’m vexed. We are being looted and sold out.
It’s taken me forty years to figure out exactly how, and I’m over it.
Simple! Stop Funding these 'Awards', especially as they are promoting 'Tino Rangatiratanga' = Treason & a violation of the Treaty!
How ironic, Maori have been saying, "Honour the Treaty for decades'! But they haven't been! I say honour the actual Treaty, NOT the one dreamt up & engineered by the Waitangi Tribunal!
Read the 'Littlewood Draft', the 'FINAL' English draft that the Maori version was translated from!
Unfortunately this is just another 'weak Govt' not doing what it said it would do, yet quickly condemn those who have united with the 'letter & spirit 'of the Treaty, 'now we are ONE people' centring on the Crown & British law as the Treaty states, & who have paid their taxes & built up New Zealand to become a modern day productive state, compared to pre-1840!
Winston Peters & NZ First should be doing a lot more than they are in respect to this current 'Gunpowder, Treason & Plot' going on!
Meaning, at least Peters should have supported Seymour's 'Treaty Principles Bill' & not bulldusted us about there being no 'principles'! Principle is a synonym for articles as so clauses*, rules, laws, points! *as in the Magna Carta
NZers are capable of distinguishing between the so called 'Waitangi Tribunal Principles' & another set of Principles based on the actual Treaty itself as the polls showed!
Peters to the detriment of all NZers was playing 'political semantics' to score points for himself once again, as in 'Peters First'!
you and all other racist trash like you should kill yourself.
I would call it low-life behavior by Chris Bishop. Who cares what he thinks, and doesnt he know when to shut up. He obviously just feels too self-important.
Like everyone, he’s allowed to speak and share his view. Just as people are doing here.
And we are allowed to point out what an arsehole he is for having such bad form and bad taste to blurt out his beliefs in the middle of a performance.
Yes, it’s a free country … in the same way people might like to call out the nature of your comments here.
Yes but Bishop is a politician interjecting in the middle of a public music performance. Why are you comparing that with us sharing a few posts online?
It is the kind of thing a politician would say.
Extending Simon’s original point about a media beat-up - this is totally a storm in a tea cup. A man (that’s his first mistake) expresses an opinion and it creates a media storm - what has this country come to? For god’s sake let’s move on!
Btw why are we (tax payers) paying for this?
See, that’s how it works. You get to have an opinion. I think it’s a flawed & ignorant one, but that’s tough luck for me.
ps It really was total crap btw..