A reflection on Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey, exploring home, justice, suffering, faith, and what an ancient epic can still teach us about the modern world.
Simon, I haven't seen "Odysseus" yet. A couple of reviews , I have already read discouraged me. However , after reading yours , I will go and see it. And so Helen's face only launched five hundred ships, that must be an anachronism. Deliberate I suppose.
I think your somewhat pompous take on why people should not dislike a black Helen of Troy more fitting for a Parliamentary debate than a recognition of why people have this view.
The following is not an attack on you, but perhaps just to show a different perspective on the subject. The Odyssey, which I read at school in England some sixty odd years ago, was given to us as it is a cultural symbol of Ancient Greece, one of the cultural foundations of the Western World. I think you may be confounding ethnicity with nationality in your response to Peter. Of course Matt Damon could be entirely credible as a Greek of the period, and Helen was most definitely a white western woman if she did exist, ethnically European. Would it be credible to you if Matt Damon was selected to portray Nelson Mandela? What do you think the reaction would be? The objection to this portrayal of Helen by a black woman is that it is part of a leftist propaganda exercise, similar to the portrayal of Anne Boleyn by a black woman. You never see this operating today in the other direction, do you? The left is always trying to negate and denigrate white achievements, while emphasising the negative aspects of European colonialism. They seem to be saying that colonialism and by extension, white Europeans, was and are the only epitome of evil, while forgetting all the positive things that Europeans have brought to the world. Do I need to list them to you? The danger is that young people may be led to believe this narrative due to this constant repetition of inaccuracies. There is a danger that westerners will be seen as entirely evil with no redeeming qualities. People of European ethnicity are already a minority in the world. Ironically the attempt by the left to “redress the balance”, may lead to extremely negative consequences.
Thanks for the comment Kevin, I think it appears most of us read Homer first while at school (and then since). I think in this instance, for me, the focus on Helen is disproportionate insofar as in Nolan's account, she is relatively minor. Had she been a more significant figure, then I would have had greater concern of rewriting history. But I do agree with your wider point - there is an active attempt to rewrite history, insert characters that never existed, and removing key aspects that did occur. I think you are also right, we rarely (if ever) see this happening in reverse.
Thanks for the response. The irony in what is happening today is that by constantly focusing on race and “trans” ideology, there is a danger that this will provoke a reaction that will prove really horrible. I think Morgan Freeman said it best when he replied to the question “what can we do about racism?” His comment was “stop talking about it all the time”. I agree with him.
To be honest, I read Homer's tranlated version when I was sixteen and meant to be studying for SC. I cannot remember Helen featuring. It was all about Odysseus returning from the wars. I take your point about about Matt Damon,however, I think,if someday they portray Captain Cook as a Chinese navigator who got off course a bit, well,there may be few, like me, that think that is stretching it a little?
that's a fair point. I initially wondered about the casting, notably from the commentary going on. But in watching the film, and as I write, I fitted the way Nolan wished to tell the story. I think I may have first read the Odyssey back in my teenager years too!
Wrong assumption, but the distinction is simple. The Greeks just like Christians (or any religion) believe in their deity(s). But superstition is the idea that you can manipulate the gods in some way to bring about your ends. This is very much an antithesis of certainly a Christian and Jewish belief system.
Your distinction doesn’t hold. Christians routinely pray for outcomes, ask God to intervene, request protection, healing, guidance, forgiveness, prosperity, and favour. That is an attempt to influence a deity’s actions. If asking a god to act is ‘manipulation,’ then Christianity fits your definition of superstition. If it isn’t manipulation, then Greek religion doesn’t fit your definition either. Your criterion doesn’t distinguish the two. You’re not describing a real difference between religions. You’re just redefining ‘superstition’ so it excludes your own belief system. That’s special pleading, not a criterion.
Simon, I haven't seen "Odysseus" yet. A couple of reviews , I have already read discouraged me. However , after reading yours , I will go and see it. And so Helen's face only launched five hundred ships, that must be an anachronism. Deliberate I suppose.
I think your somewhat pompous take on why people should not dislike a black Helen of Troy more fitting for a Parliamentary debate than a recognition of why people have this view.
you can have whatever view you want just as I have mine. I assume you are deeply upset that Matt Damon is not Greek?
The following is not an attack on you, but perhaps just to show a different perspective on the subject. The Odyssey, which I read at school in England some sixty odd years ago, was given to us as it is a cultural symbol of Ancient Greece, one of the cultural foundations of the Western World. I think you may be confounding ethnicity with nationality in your response to Peter. Of course Matt Damon could be entirely credible as a Greek of the period, and Helen was most definitely a white western woman if she did exist, ethnically European. Would it be credible to you if Matt Damon was selected to portray Nelson Mandela? What do you think the reaction would be? The objection to this portrayal of Helen by a black woman is that it is part of a leftist propaganda exercise, similar to the portrayal of Anne Boleyn by a black woman. You never see this operating today in the other direction, do you? The left is always trying to negate and denigrate white achievements, while emphasising the negative aspects of European colonialism. They seem to be saying that colonialism and by extension, white Europeans, was and are the only epitome of evil, while forgetting all the positive things that Europeans have brought to the world. Do I need to list them to you? The danger is that young people may be led to believe this narrative due to this constant repetition of inaccuracies. There is a danger that westerners will be seen as entirely evil with no redeeming qualities. People of European ethnicity are already a minority in the world. Ironically the attempt by the left to “redress the balance”, may lead to extremely negative consequences.
Thanks for the comment Kevin, I think it appears most of us read Homer first while at school (and then since). I think in this instance, for me, the focus on Helen is disproportionate insofar as in Nolan's account, she is relatively minor. Had she been a more significant figure, then I would have had greater concern of rewriting history. But I do agree with your wider point - there is an active attempt to rewrite history, insert characters that never existed, and removing key aspects that did occur. I think you are also right, we rarely (if ever) see this happening in reverse.
Thanks for the response. The irony in what is happening today is that by constantly focusing on race and “trans” ideology, there is a danger that this will provoke a reaction that will prove really horrible. I think Morgan Freeman said it best when he replied to the question “what can we do about racism?” His comment was “stop talking about it all the time”. I agree with him.
To be honest, I read Homer's tranlated version when I was sixteen and meant to be studying for SC. I cannot remember Helen featuring. It was all about Odysseus returning from the wars. I take your point about about Matt Damon,however, I think,if someday they portray Captain Cook as a Chinese navigator who got off course a bit, well,there may be few, like me, that think that is stretching it a little?
that's a fair point. I initially wondered about the casting, notably from the commentary going on. But in watching the film, and as I write, I fitted the way Nolan wished to tell the story. I think I may have first read the Odyssey back in my teenager years too!
You see that other beliefs in gods are superstition but not your own.
Thanks for the comment Raymond. You are smart enough to know the difference between beliefs and superstitions.
Then define the difference. What precise criterion makes their gods superstition but yours belief?
Wrong assumption, but the distinction is simple. The Greeks just like Christians (or any religion) believe in their deity(s). But superstition is the idea that you can manipulate the gods in some way to bring about your ends. This is very much an antithesis of certainly a Christian and Jewish belief system.
Your distinction doesn’t hold. Christians routinely pray for outcomes, ask God to intervene, request protection, healing, guidance, forgiveness, prosperity, and favour. That is an attempt to influence a deity’s actions. If asking a god to act is ‘manipulation,’ then Christianity fits your definition of superstition. If it isn’t manipulation, then Greek religion doesn’t fit your definition either. Your criterion doesn’t distinguish the two. You’re not describing a real difference between religions. You’re just redefining ‘superstition’ so it excludes your own belief system. That’s special pleading, not a criterion.