23 Comments
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Clinton Trass's avatar

Hi Simon,

Thanks for sharing this. There are thoughtful counter-points in your piece, and I agree the conflict is complex and historically loaded.

Where I’m struggling is what’s happening in Gaza right now. The scale of hunger and the reports of aid being blocked or delayed are, to me, unconscionable. Israel has a right - and an obligation - to defend its citizens from Hamas, but restricting food, water and medical relief goes beyond self-defence. That’s why people like me, who broadly support Israel’s right to protect itself, are reassessing our stance. Something needs to change quickly.

On Stuff not publishing your op-ed: my hunch is the issue is tone rather than viewpoint. The draft reads as polemic and, at points, feels like an attack on Goff personally. Most mainstream outlets will decline pieces that lean into ad hominem, straw-men or sweeping assertions.

If you’re open to it, a tighter version that:

• removes personal digs and labels,

• states claims in neutral language,

• links to primary sources for every factual assertion (e.g., Genocide Convention text, ICC/ICJ filings, Hamas charter, HRW/Amnesty material, data on aid flows), and

• explicitly acknowledges civilian suffering alongside your legal argument,

would, I think, have a much better chance of being published.

Simon O'Connor's avatar

Agree something needs to change and that is also complicated. As with much in the Middle East, it's complicated. I appreciate the writing feedback too - that's also a balance I have found between straight down the line and a little rhetorical flourish; in many ways, I wrote in the style of Goff's piece. But again, feedback is welcome :)

Stephen's avatar

Only if it is good feedback!

Stephen's avatar

Did we read the same article! One shouldn't have to jump through all the hoops you mentioned to get published! It's an opinion piece, after Simon had actually been to Israel!

You sound confused or as if you are an apologist for Stuff! As far as tone goes, what are you talking about!

It's this 'woolly headed thinking' that actually ends up aiding & abetting Hamas!

Clinton Trass's avatar

I just make the point, that both of Simon's pieces add real value to the discussion about this complex situation, however both seem to be too focused on Phil Goff. If it were me, I would have drafted the Opinion piece in a way that raised all of the valid points without it getting into whether or not Goff's opinion is valid or not. I wouldn't have even mentioned Goff's article.

I speculate that this may be at least part of the reason it did not pass Stuff's editorial standards.

I could be wrong, and it is also possible that it was not published because the Editor is a pro-Palestine, anti-Jew left wing extremist.

But I have no evidence of the latter and am inclined to give the benefit of the doubt unless I am presented with real proof to the contrary.

Our MSM have dropped the ball in a number of areas and continue to pay the price (falling subscribers and ad revenue). However, we must also be careful to not immediately jump to the conclusion that left-wing ideological bias is always the cause when they do (or don't do) something we dislike or disagree with.

I enjoy your opinion pieces Simon, keep up the good work.

Stephen's avatar

Study history & you will understand what is going on here!

From Muhammed till now, Islam has waged a Jihad/war against the people of the world, to impose their values, culture & ideology upon others! Their terror tactics include beatings, rape, torture & slaughter to make a people compliant to their rule!

In America, that type of despotic behaviour sparked the 'War of Independence'!

In light of that, Israel has the right to defend itself! In wars, civilians are always killed! Especially when being used as human shields! Besides, death equals martyrdom for them!

We have no idea how these Islamists view life, brainwashed from childhood to hold a certain worldview towards non-Muslims that allows them to do anything to the infidel, including people of other faiths!

What the 'bleeding heart liberals' need to be concerned about is what they are going to do to them, once they take power in a nation!

A little aside! Imagine if the Nazis had tied children to their tanks whilst pounding the allies with their shells! Would the allies not have fired back?

We can not superimpose our Western values & thinking onto these people re how they think & act!

No more sympathy for the devil!

As Simon said, Hamas are being aided & abetted by the media to garner sympathy for their cause, painting Israel as the bad guys, but history speaks for itself!

Only the foolish & naïve would be sucked in by this 'misdirection & deception'!

A van Rijn's avatar

As young uni students in Hamilton we once “welcomed” Minister Goff with the chant “Fuck off Phil Goff!” - dusting that one off in my mind this morning saw me add: “… and fuck uff too Stuff”.

Time to wash out my mouth with soap 😇

Maurice Hooper's avatar

The best thing Stuff could do would be to get Qualified, historically qualified historians, together with the Archaeologists who are digging up historical evidence as to the Israeli history every day, to speak to their otherwise ignorant staff.

Proving that there is a historical picture and cultural past that is truth. When people only go on emotional bias and submit to deception, they are on a downward spiral to grief and pain that's all false. Your choice, but you won't live to and enjoy it unless you find it.

J.M.Venning's avatar

Canterbury uni pushes antu Israel propaganda has dine for decades...political scuence department teaches 6 day war from a marxist perspective, history allowed a holocaust denying thesis to go forward under supervision of Vincent Orange, philosophy currently encourages woke visiting 'experts' whose vitriol is emphasised by scurrilous character assassinations of Republican senatirs a d book tgumping reminiscent of Kruschev's shoe stunt. Shame on our closed minds and biased media.

Chuck Bird's avatar

Simon, you are right about Stuff. They are not balanced like most of the MSM. You have been to Israel but not to Gaza. Have you been to the West Bank? I know someone who served in the IDF who now lives in NZ. It is clear that Hamas is an evil terrorist group that committed atrocities on 7 October. However, that does not give Israel a blank cheque to what it likes to innocent civilians.

It does not mean that Hamas lies and the Israeli government always tells the truth. My friend, who was in the IDF, believes that Netanyahu is a criminal and therefore not truthful. Please view the video with the link below. This was taken a year ago, before children and babies were dying from starvation.

Holocaust Survivor Absolutely DEMOLISHES Israel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxLtxX7kPcU

Please tell me if you agree with what the Pope has to say on this conflict.

Simon O'Connor's avatar

Agree the actions of Hamas do not give Israel, or anyone a blank cheque. I got to the border of Gaza but not inside - as you know, that's not possible. The destruction was very clear to see, including me watching the artillery fall - so I'm under little illusion of what is happening after seeing with my own eyes (and not what you see curated in media). It won't surprise you that many in Israel debate Netanyahu! As for the Pope, he's right to call for peace; it's part of his job :)

Just Boris's avatar

Well written Simon. Why would anyone be surprised to see Stuffed controlling the narrative? Journalism? There is a Tui moment right there. Israel has facilitated something just short of 2 million tonnes of aid into Gaza, allegedly enough to feed everyone more than a normal daily calorific requirement. Photos of handicapped children on the front of the NYT etc are deliberately distorting reality.

Phil Goof is a complete moron. Usless MP, hopeless Mayor and now an ignorant has-been who knows fuck all about the Middle East other than what he reads in some tabloid like the Guardian. If there were no dangerous areas in Gaza (ie Hamas stopped shooting and surrendered), then there would be no problem driving trucks into any part of Gaza.

Guy P. D. Armstrong's avatar

Respectfully, Simon:

You stated that

"Israel left Gaza in 2005 and would have stayed out had Hamas not crossed the border fences in 2023" which is totally false.

Have you heard of "Operation Cast Lead"?

This was a military attack against Gaza in 2008-9. A Jewish man and ex-judge of South Africa's Constitutional Court named Richard Goldstone wrote a report on it, available here:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/special-sessions/session9/fact-finding-mission

(Scroll down to the "documentation" section)

Professor Norman Finkelstein has mentioned it consistently in his books.

One paragraph in the 'Conclusions and recommendations (Advance 2)':

"1887. The timing of the first Israeli attack, at 11.30 a.m. on a weekday, when children were

returning from school and the streets of Gaza were crowded with people going about their

daily business, appears to have been calculated to create the greatest disruption and

widespread panic among the civilian population. The treatment of many civilians detained

or even killed while trying to surrender is one manifestation of the way in which the

effective rules of engagement, standard operating procedures and instructions to the troops

on the ground appear to have been framed in order to create an environment in which due

regard for civilian lives and basic human dignity was replaced with disregard for basic

international humanitarian law and human rights norms."

There are many paragraphs like this one. Remember this is late 2008 early 2009.

Look at page 6 for the conclusion there: Cast Lead was "a deliberately disproportionate

attack designed to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population, radically diminish

its local economic capacity both to work and to provide for itself, and to force upon it an

ever increasing sense of dependency and vulnerability."

Why is it disproportionate? USA sends so much weaponry to Israel, right? Have you heard of Hamas having a tank? Israel has tanks. Have you heard of Hamas having jet bombers? Israel has jet bombers.

There are many operations like the one above.

Look up 31st May, 2010. Israeli commandoes attacked a ship called The Mavi Marmara, killing 9 people.

Look up "Operation Protective Edge" in 2014. The UN Report is available here:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/co-i-gaza-conflict/report-co-i-gaza

This report discusses the dropping of one-tonne bombs on residential areas in Gaza, yes it killed a lot of people. 550 Gazan children were murdered by Israel during this "operation". 1 Israeli child was murdered by Hamas and their rockets. Just look at that ratio. 1 Israeli house was destroyed compared to 18,000 Gazan houses.

Do you seriously think this kind of provocation had nothing to do with 7/10/23 attacks? Did you know Israel and the USA have CONSISTENTLY cast negative votes on "peaceful settlement of the question of palestine" from 1997 to 2008?

People say "Israel wants peace" but they don't want to acknowledge Palestinian statehood, do they? Why not, Sir? Answer me, please!

Respectfully Sir, I am sure you love your friends and family in Israel and I don't want to cast aspersions on anyone. But if they haven't been telling you about these "operations" which are little more than high-tech killing sprees, it really is a testament to the power of Israeli propaganda.

I have written a couple of articles here on my substack:

https://open.substack.com/pub/guypdarmstrong/p/were-the-7th-october-2023-attacks?r=12ghgq&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

https://open.substack.com/pub/guypdarmstrong/p/book-review-gaza-an-inquest-into?r=12ghgq&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false

All the best to you and yours Sir

Guy P D Armstrong

Stephen's avatar

Think about it! Gaza was given billions by the UN to help her create a nation, & Hamas decides to build tunnels, buy weaponry & attack Israel instead of building up infrastructure, schools, hospitals whatever! That says it all!

It's not as if Hamas didn't know that Israel would respond to their October 7 act of barbarism! They wanted Israel to, so they could become the 'poster child of victimhood' & 'cry bully' out to the world their own self-inflicted plight!

It's part of what what I call 'Sympathy for the Devil'!

To ultimately get rid of Israel they are happy to have their own killed, doing it themselves if need be! Along with suicide bombers, it is called 'martyrdom' as part of their 'Holy Jihad'!

Study the history of Islam! Nothing has changed re their ideology, tactics, terror campaigns, tyranny, & their hegemonic agenda! How did we end up with 49 Muslim states in the world? Going door to door witnessing handing out tracts?

That's the big picture!

Bad things happen in 'centuries' long wars' - since 600 AD!

Guy P. D. Armstrong's avatar

Some people think Hamas expected a response from 7/10 just like what they got, I don't know.

Some people remember that at least a couple of people had called Gaza a "concentration camp" prior to 2023 and that 7/10 was a refusal to live under such conditions, I don't know.

Good talk on it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YcWuObe0h8&t=1s

However bad Hamas are, Israel and the USA have harmed Palestinians a lot more. I bet you would build tunnels if people were dropping bombs on your house.

Rob Clemens's avatar

STUFF = Semi Truths Funnel Fed

David Logan's avatar

A few numbers relevant to the Gaza confrontation. All these numbers can be found on Google.

Israelis killed in Hamas attack Oct 23 1139

Hamas active members killed to date 13000

Israeli IDF members killed to date 887

Medical support people killed to date 1500 (channel 4)

Media reporters killed to date 178

Palestinians killed to date in Gaza 58313

Children included in above 17921

Palestinians killed queueing for food 1000 (since May)

Palestinians killed to date in the West Bank 870

Children included in above 177

My conclusion from these numbers is that neither side owns the high ground

We would be better off finding a solution than debating the meaning of genocide and whether the IDF are blameless.

If Hamas started with 20,000 to 30,000 members, have lost 13,000 and are currently 18,000 how much longer will this continue?

Solutions not continual excuse making is required

Stephen's avatar

Consider the losses in WW 2 being predominantly Russian, Polish, German, Chinese, yes Chinese & Indonesia c/- of the Japanese! In each of these cases it was civilian loss of life that was greater than military loss of life! This included death by famine & disease.

We need to understand the history of Islam to understand what is going on here! For a 'religion' that has conquered many nations over 1300 years through terror, slaughter & forced conversions, Israel is just another nation in their way!

Remember who initiated this bloodshed! Don't prod the dog if you don't like being snarled at!

This is largely a PR campaign being run by Hamas et al to gain the sympathy of the world! The whole thing has been orchestrated from behind the scenes, not for love of the Palestinians, but to remove Israel & hence destabilise the Middle East, whatever the human cost!

Israel is about half the size of Canterbury! Compare that to all the 'real estate' in Muslim hands! It doesn't make sense until you understand the Islamic world agenda, & given how Islam acquired its 'lands'!

'Sympathy for the devil' is not a precondition for a successful resolution!

Read my other comments in this post.